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"The times, they are a-changin"

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Ben Henick

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User since: January 23, 2000

Last login: February 05, 2007

Articles written: 9

I was at a job interview on Thursday afternoon, and the interviewer was a Mac guy. I had the opportunity to see some of my projects - with my own eyes - on a System 8 box for the first time... and I was disappointed.

Subsequently cross-platform issues entered the discussion, and the only conclusion reached was that standards-based support for the Mac as a Web platform is truly awful... at least in regard to interactivity.

I have every reason to believe that Mozilla will fix this problem, and will provide a ray of hope in regard to making our jobs easier, not harder. That it will make affordable budgets the rule rather than the exception. All of this applies, too, to Intel-based platforms.

As we are beginning to discover, Netscape 5 is in alpha, with beta scheduled to follow in little more than a month.

I have a proposal:

That as of 1 July 2000, those of us providing high degrees of interactivity leave Netscape 3/4 and IE3 out in the cold.

This is concomitant with a current discussion elsewhere under the "herding" thread, but perhaps more drastic... "You haven't upgraded yet? Too bad."

I have visions in my head of angry users and skeptical clients, but... even in the short term, I fail to see how such a course of action would make things worse. Here are some of the reasons why:

  1. Properly implemented CSS/DHTML does wonders for accessibility. If you're a federal employee who knows these technologies, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Oh - good DHTML and XML save bandwidth, too.
  2. The upgrade hassles can be simplified: lobby the ISPs you know of that support Netscape. Tell them to start burning new CDs, and make them available. Offer to help.
  3. This will save #$*@loads of money. Tell your clients that such a strategy will annihilate the budget requirements. That'll get 'em listening. You will get more sleep as a result, and be able to do more-interesting projects, too.
  4. You can still provide for the users who resist. "Herd" your "legacy" users to an "Enhanced for Netscape 1.1" version of the site that can be slapped together with just about any of the tools out there, with a minimal investment of time. Make sure to include an HTML 2.0 DTD. Make it so vanilla - down to the 25%-black bg and blue underlined links - that they'll wonder what they can do to fix it. Provide the answer to that question in a very prominent space on that version of the site. <chuckle> If it was good enough for Word, shouldn't it be good enough for you?

I imagine that some of you are upset at such a prospect, because it will damage revenues. I can't say that such a risk is nonexistent but it's like they say: nothing ventured, nothing gained. If clients can buy into the idea, the entire Internet will improve as a result, and in a fairly short period of time.

Why? If the average level of interactivity available to users increases, the Web will grow, much as a rainbow follows a rainstorm. Why shouldn't we take steps to boost the popularity of the Web as a medium?

...And before I forget, keep in mind that the abandonment of legacy code will give us more time to innovate. I hinted at it, sure, but now I'm spelling it out.

Something to keep in mind, too, is that the Web has grown to its present proportions because from a marketer's perspective, it has the highest return-on-investment of any medium. Users could care less where they get the information, as long as it's usable... they're on the Web because that's where the information is most accessible. If we take steps that will make the Web valuable as an experience, users will eventually love us for it... and that will create a positive feedback cycle.

Do you want that? I sure as hell do.

Submitted by persist1 on January 30, 2000 - 02:32.

I should add something to this, having looked at some demographics:

The article assumes that DHTML, etc. are being used to maximize the power of the interface, or at least catch the user's attention in a way that will make them go, "Hey - what was that?"

Gratuitous use of newer technologies gets exactly what it deserves.

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Submitted by wolfboy on January 30, 2000 - 18:54.

As an aside... I have been checking the logs on my personal sites and on my clients' sites for the past few months: Each month, the number of 3.0 browsers has been in steady decline. In the month of January, only four 3.0 browsers were logged for all of the sites. This is a good indication that it is time to start writing exclusively for 4.0+ browsers.

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Submitted by persist1 on January 30, 2000 - 19:18.

3.0 slipping? Stands to reason...

The motherboards that run 16-bit systems are notoriously not Y2K compliant. I have to assume that a lot of this change is due to new-system purchases. Also, VeriSign doesn't work AT ALL on NN3 now.

On other fronts: what, exactly, is the syntax for referring to ID'd and NAMEd objects in Mozilla (for the purposes of scripting DHTML)? I've looked and looked and looked, and I can't find the answer. I'm presently assuming that 'document.body.ElementID.style' does the trick...

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Submitted by MartinB on January 31, 2000 - 05:58.

Couple of points, one agreeing with you, and one disagreeing. Disagreeing
Poor showing on a Mac isn't an OS thing, it's a specific version of NN thing. NN4.5 isn't bad, IE4.5 is quite good. IE5 (due very soon) claims to be standards-compliant. If you build it knowing that some users have different sized fonts, then you're fine. Agreeing
I'm in the middle of a major redesign of a sizeable site, and we're going for different templates for different browsers. Our priority list is:
  1. IE/NN4
  2. Enhanced HTML2.0, primarily for blind users
  3. Standards-compliant browsers
  4. HTML3.2
They're ordered this way to hit the largest audiences, or those with specific requirements (UK law says we have to make best efforts to provide disabled access). Given the timescales involved, we're not going to get them all for launch date. Options 1 and 2 have to be there, option 3 would be good to have, but option 4 may never make it.

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Submitted by persist1 on January 31, 2000 - 19:12.

About the above:  it's not an OS thing, but at the same time, it is. Let me explain further.

The fact is that many features available on the Windoze platform are more difficult (if not impossible) for us developers to implement for the Mac. I have nothing against it, and would in fact prefer to do development on Macs were it not for the sketchy level of software support.

My standard joke is that it's the "machine for people who have lives."

The total cost of ownership is lower and Macs aren't as meltdown-prone - or insecure - as their Wintel-powered cousins.

That's why I got so POed in the first place.

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Submitted by MartinB on February 1, 2000 - 06:14.

Part of the trouble is that MS broke a whole bunch of things when they produced IE4 for Mac. There was another WM Taylor article which went into more specifics, but I can't find it now. Most of the kickass tools *are* available for Mac (notable exception: CFStudio, but much of it is hackable with BBEdit), and you'll certainly need one for testing, as you saw.

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Submitted by amoreno on February 1, 2000 - 15:51.

The firm I work for currently designs sites with v3 browsers as the Lowest Common Denominator (LCD). We have a QA guy that's been studying the all the logs from our sites (financial, e-commerce, etc.) and is seeing that v3 browsers actually show up less than 8% of late. We're on the verge of upping the LCD to v4. The thing is, even a v4 browser can be brought down by bad code. Just this morning, I went to the new login page for our Intranet and was met with a big ol' blank screen. When I asked, I was told to use IE. I told them to add a </td></tr> in the right place and that I didn't give a rat's a** if IE is the default browser for the company. If it happens on our own site, how big of a problem is it on our client sites? As for the mac/pc thing, thank the almighty for Cold Fusion. Just detect #http_user_agent# and set fonts accordingly in application.cfm. :)

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